Coping With Lying Alcoholics-Why they lie so much

How can you tell when an alcoholic is lying? There lips are moving. Coping (dealing) with the lying nature of the problem drinker is better done through accepting the fact that lies are a way of life for the substance abuser. They really have a problem with being truthful about anything.

Why do they lie so much? Let’s face it, they are living in a world of denial and if we get honest enough with ourselves, we will realize that we are living in denial as well. It’s really not important to understand why they do this, just accept the fact and leave them alone when they do it.


The sooner you can accept that lying is a part of the alcoholic’s lifestyle the better you will be able to cope. Dealing with someone who is not telling the truth is frustrating because it causes us to want to argue with them about not telling the truth.

Just learn how to zip your lip.

When we stop confronting them then there will be a lot less finger pointing going on. There is great freedom to be enjoyed once we stop judging an alcoholic.

When we learn that we do not have to try and prove to them that we know they are telling us a lie, then our frustration level will go down. This will help us to also stop blaming an alcoholic for much of our stress.

What is the point of confronting an alcoholic who is lying anyway? You know they are just going to deny the truth and stand up for the false reality that they perceive to be truth. Alcoholic liars come in every shape from a teenage son, daughter, spouse, mom, dad, grandmother or grandfather.

The reason they lie so much is because alcoholics are filled with shame. Have you ever known someone who when they were a child said they wanted to be an alcoholic when the grow up? Of course not, no one sets a goal to be addicted to some type of drug or substance. The alcoholic thinks and feels as though “they” are a mistake. For that reason they will lie about countless matters.

Unfortunately, lying is a comfortable way of life for the alcoholic. The best way of coping (or, dealing) with this problem is to just accept the truth and let them tell their lies without you pretending to be the private investigator who knows what really happened.

Trust me… When you start letting go of all the things they are doing, you will start losing your temper with an alcoholic less.

Just let them live their dysfunctional life and you enjoy yours without the additional fight for the day.
Author: JC Edited by: Odum On

Alcohol Addiction Family

How to Stop Arguing With an Alcoholic


470 comments to Coping With Lying Alcoholics-Why they lie so much

  • Sally

    Patricia, you could have been me 4 years ago. I was so torn over my decision to leave, but the damage he was doing to me with his alcoholic behaviors was finally too much for me to bear. The bad times far outnumbered the good, and when I thought about another year or 5 or 20, I knew I had to leave.

    You’ll not be completely free of your AH for some time because there is a child involved, but make your plans as though he won’t be a big part of your lives, except, perhaps, during the first year or so. And don’t count on consistent money from him. They’re not known for being dependable as we well know. Yes, he loves your daughter, as much as an alcoholic can ever love anyone apart from themselves. But his kind of love is selfish and self-serving, and he will eventually have no qualms about treating her like he treats you. Drunks love children – until the children get older and start questioning their behavior.

    My ex-ABF raised 3 children who all grew up with his drinking and drugs. He even introduced his kids to them, and tried to rationalize that! I didn’t make a secret to him or his now-grown kids of how wrong that was! The ex-ABF’s father had done the same thing to him, but as I pointed out to my ABF, those were not the actions of a good man – which was what the ABF told me when we first met. Uh…NO. Over the 5 years we were together, he changed his mind about his dad.

    My ABF’s daughters were so damaged by being raised by two alcoholics. His son was an almost carbon copy of his dad. A raging alcoholic before he was 20. Please don’t let your love for your husband be greater than the love you have for your daughter. You can love him but you don’t have to live a life of anger and chaos because you love him. You owe it to your daughter not to inflict that on her. You have a choice. She does not. It is your job as a mother to protect your child.

    I know how gut-wrenching it is to have to leave. I know, too, that you can do it. There will be lonely days and nights, but there will also be peaceful nights and days. You and your daughter are in my prayers. Stay strong. You can do this.

  • Sally

    And Patricia, don’t worry about whether he despises you when you leave. He’ll despise that you’re making his life less convenient. He despise that he won’t have you there doing all the everyday grown-up work of living, and he’ll despise losing his emotional punching bag. The one thing that my ex-AFB did that just had me seeing red was when he’d say he couldn’t be held responsible for doing or saying things that he couldn’t remember doing or saying. My response was always, pity that you don’t remember, because I sure do! (And also because on occasion toward the end, I made pictures and a couple of videos of him in a dead drunk or walking black-out, and passed out in the kitchen or living room floor. They were useful in stiffening my spine when needed.)

    Stay strong. You’ll find lots of support on this site.

  • Oh Sally,

    Thank you so much! I just logged in after seeing my husband today. He wanted to drop off my birthday gift and see our daughter… I couldn’t deny him seeing his child and I wanted my gift!(SIGH)

    I guess apart of me wanted to see him too but I really wanted our short encounter to be a come to Jesus moment for him… I wanted him to just come clean about everything and just finally say why he turned against me so, and why he ended up being so mean to me. I just wanted some vindication! Well, we talked for a bit I broke it him that I was not coming back home and that I will be moving into my own place eventually. He expressed that he did not want this to happen, but I did not feel the sincerity. I believe deep down he wants to be free so he can be active in his addiction without coming home looking at me and our daughter and being riddled with guilt. I am just so hurt that I have to leave my home… I mean up root everything for me and my baby so that he can live his madness driven life and I go through so such an exhausting transition.

    I asked him if he wanted to stay married and he said he did. I don’t know how much of that is true. I mean he had me and baby right there to love him and he kicked us to the curb. Now, he wants to act as if he wants us and that he really is sulking without us… I don’t believe it… When we were there he didn’t stay home nor did he come home. Now, we are gone and he actually has the nerve to say that it’s lonely there without us!? I said to him, “well I know how that feels, I felt that everyday and night waiting for you to come home.” You know what he said? “Atleast you have the baby.” What!?? This is why I think he is just playing mind games with me and is not mature enough to come clean and be honest.. That marriage and a child is too much for him and he really just wants to do what he wants to do.. As he has stated to me many times in the midst of his drunk tantrums!

    I am just so tired and at a lost for words.(sort of)I just really miss my husband and I am hurt and angry that he could just throw me away. I am just really struggling with thought of being without him.. I am also scared that maybe he will find someone else while I am still in love with him. I am not willing to turn back now but I just want answers.

    Thank you for sharing your experience with me, it helps a lot to hear when someone feels like I do or did, and has gone through the same scenario or similar.

    How did you get your sanity and peace back. How did you finally just except it and move on in your heart?

  • Pez

    Patricia, I’m not going to lie to you! it is in excruciating Lee hard process. I had to leave the man I loved as well when I still love him he found another woman right away and she is a skank. but drunks are willing to settle for that. you’ve got to think more of yourself and that you deserve better and your child. keep that first and foremost in your thoughts no matter what happens. I had a lot of good friends I could talk to through the pain, I have PTSD from the emotional abuse and psychological because of the lies and what reality really turned out to be. I did get a prescription for Xanax which helped me through a lot of hard thoughts I couldn’t handle. and now a year later I’m getting better every day every month all the time. it’s a very hard process to go through. but you can do it others have and you have to know your worth and you’re worth more than what you’re going through.

  • Thank you Pez,

    I really appreciate you’re advice and wisdom through all this. You have really helped me with a lot. I am so blessed to have found this site. I started on this site a year ago in August or September of 2014 and I can honestly say that being on here, reading all of your experiences has really helped me return to my faith and get stronger. I have read some of my post from a year ago and I was a complete mess and still had no idea what was coming… Bringing me to today.

    I thank God for you and everyone else that has been helped by this site and has helped others like me on this site.

    I still have so many questions and emotions I am just grateful that at this stage of many being with an alcoholic I can truly say that I am wiser stronger and a little happier. I know it can only get better… But as we all know it is a very painful process.

  • mmmmmmm

    Hi all,

    Im really appreciating all the great posts today and bluntness. Its amazing the abuse and manipulation I took from my alc gf, and the lying and the cheating. I think the illusion they are good at presenting is juggling many different people in their lives for different purposes. They are very skilled like car salesman, at making me feel like the most important person in the world, and denying exactly what I saw or witnessed for example her flirting with men in front of me. Horrible horrible behavior, and she wasnt intoxicated many occassions, just doesnt think or give a darn who they hurt in the process. Abolutely %100 insenstive to the destruction THEY BRING on other peoples lives. I too have PTSD from my experience. I like a fool would STILL be glad to hang out with her “one more time” if only she would be nice, but I have stopped begging and trying, and I think my soviet-style hardline confrontations WORKED>>>in getting her to BACK>>>OFF of pursuing me. While pursuing other men, spending time wiht other men, she would continue to show up at my house un-invited and wanna talk and spend time with me, and I got hardline and said no, and finally I came up with my list of conditions and demanded she sign them.
    She didnt sign my “terms and conditions”, and that became my ultimate boundary. my mantra became “i can’t see you or speak to you unless you agree to my terms and conditions”.

    My terms and conditions included things that would not be so ‘impossible” for a normal person, like that she get an STD test since she has now had sex with someone else, that she agree not to talk to other people on her phone while she’s visiting me. That she stop telling me, what her drug addict and alcoholic family members “think of me”….
    She’s full of enablers in her life. THEY WANT her to stay this way. THEY do not like me. Thats fine. I LIKE ME. Other people in my life like me.

    here’s another emotional abuse manipulation I have shared with local friends who have experence this with alcoholic/addicts, when the alc tells you “everybody says your crazy”, or “nobody understands why you’re always giving me a hard time”, “you’re the only one who thinks im doing something wrong (by talking to other men, or drinking and drugging), “everybody has a glass of wine with dinner whats ur problem”? The goal of this manipulation is called “GASLIGHTING”. it is genius by the alcoholic addict, or narcissist to make US begin to think WE ARE THE CRAZY ONE.

    TO REVERSE this course, I HAD TO SPEAK UP FOR MYSELF. I COULD not longer sit and LISTEN TO THE BULL. I Had to speak louder, or whatever means necessary to defend myself. THAT WAS MY CURE. I tried “doing nothing” that didnt work. I tried “yessing her to death” that didnt work. Yes like someone above wrote, she got MORE confrontational when I Spoke up, but THAT WORKED, it finally finally finally got her to BACK OFF.
    MY opinion they need to learn that their BS isnt working on us anymore, and go find someone else to play with or BS, IM NOT ACCEPTING BS anymore. for example “sign my terms and conditions” or go _____BLANK off…….

    They are preserving their LIFE as an alcoholic addict. Who’s preserving me? Thats my job. I have to take care of me and protect myself from invasionary forces. Their disease is smarter than I am by a mile. Only my mantra’ing myself, OUT loud, to her, to anybody who would listen postivie SELF TALK, “i did nothing wrong”, “I didnt creat this mess”, “i didnt cheat she did”, “I didnt lie, she did”,”im not a bad guy, she is an emotional terrorist”…or telling her YOU”RE AND EMOTIONAL TERRORIST, 90000 times….you abuse men, children, family members and anybody who gets in your WAY.!!! . All truthful and accurate statement…..THATS what worked!!
    Being silent DID NOT WORK FOR ME WHATSOEVER!! I didnt get my nerve up>>>to stand up until I found a good therapist FINALLY who told me…I WAS RIGHT and SHE WAS %100 wrong and %100 responsible for the destruction of our relationship!!

    Tnx

  • mmmmmmm

    P.S for me being silent doesnt work, because most of the people I have met who have suffered from a relationship with an alcoholic/addict get wimped out, we dont call the cops, we dont block numbers , we are afraid to lose them. BEING SILENT accompanied by calling the cops if he/she shows up at your door? FINE. I could never do it. It was the only way my symptoms of PTSD and so forth got better. SPEAKING UP. Being wimpy silent, did nothing, it just gave her more license to keep trying to BS me more…it did absolutely nothing.
    BRICK WALL BOUNDARYS..with alot of yelling WORKED quite well!

  • mmmmmm…

    I love it!!! It’s funny I watched an old movie titled “Gaslight” over a year ago with my husband and I learned a lot. I also realized that that is what my husband had been doing to me all the time! I even told him that that is what he does to me. Of course he denied it, but whoo hoo… Gaslighting is exactly what he does.. What a strong trait of an alcoholic.

  • mmmmmmm

    Sorry if im posting too much I want to share this welcome if someone identifies on this:

    I dont think addicts/alcs, look for people they can love, I think they look for victims they can abuse and take advantage of. Im not kidding, I think they have a radar for this shit. The license of their line of bullshit allows them to use words like “love” and “relationship” but they dont actually “do it”. ……they act it for a while, and then they begin trashing the relatonship which we cling to, thinking it was >>>what we signed on for, the beging being a little abusive then more and more and we’re still thinking this is temporary, then they makeup for it, with excessive attention followed by more abuse, followed by phony apologies that mean nothing for more than around 10 mins. they can’t keep their word for more than around 3 minutes.
    I would say going forward any alcoholic or addict that says they are looking for a relationship, is basically looking for enablers, to help them get thru the life they keep screwing up because of their disease. THIS is why they don’t leave us so easy. They keep thinking they can “spin us” one more tiem, and usually they can.
    I dont think they know they are looking for enablers, but they are not looking for what we call “a healthy relationship”. YES they will say they want one, but they’re basically delivering us a bunch of BS in the beginning like a car salesmen. Until a new customer walks in and distracts them, ya know? “wait here a minute, you can sit in the car if you like”….meanwhile you’re getting comfortable in the car and they’re selling it to someone else, then they tell you “dont worry we have other cars coming in”….
    The other car is the cheating relatonship your alc/addict pulls, and justifies like its no big deal, or you’re the only special one, or etc…or “it was only 1 time (one car I got more)…
    They will then be best buddies with A-the customer who bought the car AND YOU, and B- the lover they just had sex with last night AND YOU………and they will do everything and aanything to KEEP BOTH of you, because you both serve a purpose of enabler.
    When they say “oh but he/she meant nothing”, guess what….ITS THE TRUTH. BUT BUT BUT I/we MEAN NOTHING TOO. thats the part they don’t tell you. We all mean NOTHING to them. THEIR ALCOHOL AND DRUG USE TRUMPS everybody. For the car salesmen its MONEY, for the addict its drinking and drugging.
    Just watch how they lie about the other circumstances with another woman or man, and subsitute YOUR NAME in the story. BECAUSE thats how they will be describing YOU to the OTHER lover…….just word subsitution.
    THIS is not a relationship. Humans don’t do that to other humans. Its cruel, inhumane and abusive. My alc did homework drunk with her kid. Good mommies (and daddies) dont do drunk homework. They dont do a glass of wine or a line of coke before doing homework with their kid,,,,, Sorry shes a BAD BAD EVIL MOMMY. THAT IS NOT COOL. ILLEGAL AND TOALLY WRONG and considered CHILD ABUSE..GOOD husbands, wives, girlfriedns and boyfriends DONT TAKE a 2nd lover. GOOD employees DONT CALL SICK because they got drunk last night. They are BAD workers. Most responsible adults, don’t go thru 1 job per month. Thats a sign of irresponsibility. Driving DRUNK is “NOT OK”. its illegal, but they dont care how many families they might kill…..Ditto sex, responsbile adults use protection, they get STD tests if they don’t. They make sure partners are clean and protected and tested.
    These are all things I/we might have experienced and convinced myself it was not a big deal. its all a big deal. its very very bad behavior…

    There is nothing positive about staying wiht one of these people. Nothing good can come out of it.

    So when i rant like this I say WHY DO I WANT THIS EVIL bad person in my life? its just not good for me.
    I dont know if the blog is good for me or bad for me, I find its getting me worked up sometimes, late night and otherwise I’ve been kind of out of this whole mentality cause i have not seen my Alc gf in a long time.

  • mmmmmmm

    Patricia, I think someone here posted, not sure if was you about vows of marriage. Well re-reading what I just wrote, above, these people alcs/addicts violate every aspect of vows, love, cherish honor and respect is NOT what they do to us. Lying is disrespectful, lying is not loving, lying is not honoring. Cheating is disrespectful, not loving and not honoring. These are bad behaviors and broken vows. We need not particpate in one way relationships when we are the only 1 participating in them
    The only relationship they ARE IN is the one with drinking and drugging. They eventually will trash the new lover, the one after that and the one after that. I had this fear “someone will get her and I wont”…well now i can say/see nobody is getting her. She might engage with other men, but the only love she has is her diseases and staying an alcoholi/addict. She will trash and destroy them just like she did me and the 10 or 15 relationships she’s had all her adult life.
    By they way when we first met she told me “how bad” all those men were. oh really? really?
    I didnt know but thats what they do. its never their fault, its all our fault and etc………so I volunteer word subsitution. Add your name/my name to anybody you hear them trashing from their past or present.
    If your hub is cheating, the other girl “isnt getting him” she’s just a pawn, and an enabler, but You dont have him either. He/they want all of us, because they dont know when one of us will dump them. THEY LIVE FOR BACKUPS……and backup to the backup. She’s a backup, Im a backup, you’re a backup. They can’t be alone in their head for 1 minute, they need distractions, we are distractions. Distractions is not a relationship. We are being used, and thats why it feels like that. BECAUSE we are being used and abused.
    Sure he wants to stay married, because you’ll bail him out of jail, or other trouble. Because they CANT STAND BEING ALONE.

    Thats all i got for tonight.

  • Pez

    No truer words mMmmm. This is exactly what they are! and coming to the truth is very difficult to realize they never really loved you. But the truth will set you free eventually. You will accept the truth.

  • K

    toMMMMM

    You are going through a lot of pain and I can see you becoming
    stronger. Sometimes, going through emotional pain forces us
    to take a good look at our lives. We then make a choice. You
    made the right choice for you. Build on that. Find your way.
    The non-alcoholics have a life too. The alcoholic will never
    believe it as they just worry about who will provide them with
    the next drink. Going from one person to the next.

    Reading about how to build your own life helps. There are some
    very good reading materials out there. Put some of those suggestions
    that fit you to work. Forget where you are today and build what
    you are going to be. This is one step in the road to a much better,
    happier life. Your X chose a different journey. Your not accepting
    her life style is a better and stronger life for you. One day
    at a time, when set backs come do not waste time, get back on
    track. You can do it.

  • Pez

    Healing from this kind of abuse can Take time! years in fact. I encourage you all to get the help you need whether it be through a counselor, through reading self help books on trauma and healing. or talk therapy. it speed the process along if you seek the help you need. but above all be patient with yourself.

  • mmmmmmm

    Hi thanks all for the comments, yes K and yes Pez. My therapist put it right, its a journey not a race, it takes time. I stopped going to meetings because I was tired of talking about it, I am recognizing that getting these email notifications here are a bit of a trigger and reading everybody’s present sagas. With PTSD type symptoms, there’s an expression of “re-living the trauma”, so me re-telling the story, is a form of re-living. I dont have active alcoholism in my day to day life, or addiction. I found at meetings of alanon, most of the men were AA men, and not quite refomred in their attitude, so it made sense to stop going.

    I’ll say one more observation, because we’re so “un-important” to the alcoholic/addict, its much easier for them to “get over” us, or “tune us out”, their lives are not destroyed from losing us, because they are very adept at finding fill-ins. And as I stated earlier they keep a full supply of backups and backup lifelines, so when we do finally start distancing, they are not alone. One odd observation, on my part, I have not met any completely ugly or 300 lb alcoholics even that I met in passing AT open AA meetings, my point is i have this theory, that because alot of them look good and are good bullshitters like the car salesmen, they dont stay alone for long. There’s plenty of volunteers to be in their company. One thing I’ve kind of studied because my EX has alot of EX boyfriends and friends that are addicts themselves, my therapist explained and I agree, a relationship where its 2 addicts or 2 alcoholics? They don’t get mad they just go cheat on the other one, its no big deal to them. We straight people live by our word, vows and so forth, they dont live that way in fact she thinks Im crazy any time I have held her accountable for something she had said.

    Anyway,

    tnx

  • K

    mmmm,

    It is easier for a addicts to claim we are crazy because their brain is so afflicted by disease.
    I began to think I was losing my mind.
    Everybody thought and still believes I am the one way out of line for the way I think and do.
    One day it dawned on me who I was talking to. Our friends are all alcoholics or addicts of one
    kind or another. I have a
    history of mental and physical abuse that goes back to my childhood.
    I do not always recognize that I am being abused. There is, for me, a
    very fine line between normal and addictive behavior because of life
    long abuse. I am learning that I do not have to accept an abusive statement
    as fact and yes, I would rather be alone than to have anyone tell me I am different.
    I have learned to step aside, leave the room, anything to
    keep those addicts from hurting me any more. I am thankful for those outside
    his world that treat me with honesty and friendship. Church is a wonderful place
    to find comfort and love of one human to another. I thrive in that environment.
    Yes, you will find addicts in church, yes they are forgiven. Yes, they still
    hurt people around them as they heal. But support from the church environment
    and informational references support my journey. Slowly, I m growing
    and rejoicing my life. Painful, pain I hear in your notes to this website.
    Growing=we all are.

  • Pez

    Mmmmm, it is hard to recognize that they have absolutely no conscience regarding us we are the only ones who truly love them they didn’t love us. there is a saying the honest can sleep at night well I hate to tell you so Can they! what they’ve done. Doesn’t interrupt their sleep very much at all. they are in such a deluded state and have no conscience. but what I try to keep in mind mMmmm is deep inside they know the horrible life they’re living and how would you like to be on their deathbed one day and know that you’ve been not living in reality your entire life and wondering what life was really about. consequences will come maybe not when we want them to, but they will come. you can’t live a drunken life without maybe a domestic violent charge, a DUI, someone punching your lights out for being such a jerk., and there’s so much more that could happen to them in their drunken state. I’m not a vengeful person but everybody needs a little justice for being treated badly some for many years. and with a drunk all you have to do is wait it will come. and justice won’t fix what happened, it won’t give you the person you love back into your life, so that part we have to learn to move on and be happy. it is what it is they’re addicts we’re not and we learned a lesson and a tough one at that. do I like it? hell no I hate it. if I could unmeet him 5 years ago I absolutely would choose to not have ever met him. but if you can, imagine being them! something to be thankful for.

  • mmmmmmm

    Hi all, K i like how you phrase that “we don’t have to accept the abusive statement as fact”, not sure what u meant by a fine line between normal and addictive behavior.
    In my opinion non-addicts, and addicts have a huge line, we (im a non-alc/addict), operate on the international standard of logic, and we’re happy to explain ourselves if we do something to hurt someone else. I speak for myself, I am fully accountable for my actions and behaviors, they are not. I am a responsible person, they are not. They might mimick various forms of responsibility but its all part of the con-job to get what they want from a person, a job, a lover, a family member. they focus entirely on self, and are completely unable to have emapthy towards others. My problem and most friends of I’ve met, is too much empathy for the abusive person, because i have empathy for everybody.
    Im too self concious. For example I could not just read your posts in my email here, and “not respond” this would be a piece of cake for a addict/alc.
    I’d be curious what u mean by fine line.
    Pex, yes its really a joke, they do sleep well at night. I’d be sitting up all night trying to call or text, and the odds were she was sound asleep. I flooded out my kitchen sink, i forgot the water on I was so hard trying to contact her one night a long time ago. And yes I totally agree about justice. Imagine being them? My therapist says he’d rather have lung cancer than their disease.

  • mmmmmmm

    I mean regarding imagine being them, I dont know, I dont have to imagine, looks to me like they have alot of fun screwing people over, they get inebriated and dont have to deal with consequences. sorry if my response is disjointed running out the door.

  • K

    mmmm

    Fine line for me is learning about what a
    fine line is. Recognizing it from my childhood to
    adult. Today they would call it severly
    abused to the point that my brain code
    believes abuse is normal, I do not see the
    line where a barrier should be in place
    to protect myself. For me, not you, it is
    a fine line, because I fail to see it. I
    see you have a strong line. You see it quickly
    and you do not accept abusive behatior.

  • Pez

    Mmmmm they will suffer the consequences! I’ve heard of many alcoholics getting multiple DUI’s, others being jail for abusive behavior, getting into a car accident and killing someone. they get away with it for a long time but eventually it catches up with them. if not in this way they will have failing organs and brain because of it. and they will eventually die of it. I heard of some losing their mind. just because yours hasn’t suffered any consequences as of yet doesn’t mean she won’t. just a matter of time.

  • mmmmmmm

    Hey Pez, well she broke 37 bones a few years before we began hanging out and that didnt change anything, but i know what u mean. My ex gf has latched onto one man , who she kept their relationship foggy to me, , but he is unphased by her using and cheating, he’s likely a sort of detached narcissist himself, and for her quite a good enabler, more on him later.

    To K, I would say growing up in a dysfunctional home, which I had treated myself for years of therapy prior, and also done ACA with did not equate having a romantic relationship with an alcoholic addict, who was able to emotionally seduce me telling me what I wanted to here, and maintaining a good front for quite some time enough to the point where i thought I had won lotto. My therapist has been dealing with people like me and people like her for 45 years, he has seen scores of men and women partners of alcoholics seduced by the BS into believe they had met the love of their life, he does not see it as a fault of mine, more a normal reaction. Beautiful woman, wanting to spend every minute with me…..not slurring,,,,not visibly wasted all the time,,,,,,”used to be an addict”…..what did i know,? how would i know better? Also ta-boot it was at a time when my self esteem was down, because of my job complications, and my previous non alc gf relation had been dead for some time. My therapist attributes my in-ability to “leave” the Alc gf, due to really bashed self esteem, which is quite common after these gaslighting manipulation type relationships.
    Ive written before that I found naranon more helpful than alanon, they use many of the same books, but some of their literature is a little more focused on THEM, whereby in alanon, i see people blaming themselves all the time “whats my part” in this.
    My therapist set me straight on the confusion i was getting in meetigns and finally said “you’re only part in this is your in-ability to dis-engage, we’ve gone over every incident of your relationship, and clearly your alc gf is %100 responsible for the destruction of the relationship and lack of success”.
    All i wanted was what i signed on for , a permanent life partner with whom to grow old with, who gave me pretty darn good attention until she started drifting and cheating and lying. He (my therapist), has heard this same story dozens of times.
    AND yes K, i had a strong line from what was right and wrong, but her skillset- at lying and manipulation, is so good, any civilian non alcoholic, could not go up against it and win. My therapist said its like going in the boxing ring wiht mike tyson.
    SO it was only thru “validation”, from the therapist, that I actually hadnt done anything wrong except try to be with a girl who pursued me, that I worked up the nerve to put some hard line boundaries. Prior to this therapist which was around 18 months into the relationship, I was trying and trying to set lines but getting no where. She would constantly convince me that I was wrong.
    by the way K, i told my therapist today your line above about “not accepting what they say as fact”. I do like how you put that, so did he.
    I will add I have heard met women in alanon, who also identified with their alcoholic husband being handsome, extremely attractive and so forth. Again I have not heard of 1 single 300lb ugly alcoholic or addict, keeping someone like myself locked into a relationship. In my short experience with friends of, we’re usually extremely attracted physically the abusive partner.

    One of the highly skilled manipulitive sets I belive they have is emotinal seduction and sexual appetite. Again in my case this was not a woman who was slur-drunk, no wine breath, not fall down drunk, nothing like that, just a highly skilled lightly buzzed zanax and alcohol abuser (former heroin and cocaine addict 30 yrs ago in my neighborhood)…

    It was not until I convinced myself what u said “what she’s saying is not a fact its a manipulation” that I could stand up, and nail her to the cross AND MEAN IT…..prior to that i was always in doubt. It got to the point where i would make accusatons, which always were guesses, because how do you know if she had sex with a guy she sends you a picture of and says its just a friend? how do u know? Once I began to believe if their lips are moving their lying, I wedged my bets and just ACCUSED and BELIEVE my thoughts were HIGHLY likely to be correct and hers were complete BS…..
    the more I wedged my bets and ACCUSED with a gusto, the more she started to back off and vanish. I HAD TO MEAN WHAT I SAY. Once she realized the BS wasn’t working, and I wasn’t buying it anymore NO MATTER WHAT,,,,,she slowly backed off. And finally the agreement I presented which she refused to sign, was my A#1 best move of all.
    Becuase they’re so good at hiding facts blurring reality, its very very hard to KNOW our accusations are accurate but the SCIENCE of addiction tells me they are lying. Her actions were not consistent with her words, so I started finally believing the science.

  • Pez

    Mmmmm I will confirm that my XAB was extremely attractive to me! I will also confirm that I fell deeply in love with him. apart from the drinking, I love the way we got along, the things we have in common, his personality. and a lot of other little things he did. he definitely emotionally manipulated me into believing he loved me and would never leave me. but it was all a lie. because as soon as I got to the point you did not taking anymore BS and lies he moved on to another low life woman. he not only chose one step down he chose 10 steps or more down. this woman is a low life loser as well with a criminal record and looks nothing as good as I do. but she will take him as he is for a house to live in and a provider. I take care of myself I work and have my own business. it still blows me away he chose what he did so he could continue to drink.

  • Pez

    Ps I also thought I met the love of my life. How Decieved I was. but like you said he was a smooth talker!

  • mmmmmmm

    hi pez, well thats what they do, they gravitate towards low life losers because its easier. For example, like i wrote yesterday addict/addict relationship, they won’t get mad, they will just cheat on the other one, so both will be cheating, then they’ll fight, fight fight and makeup and do this phony forgiveness manipulation.
    Well ya know people who are bad mommy’s who do drunk homework, who drink and drive, who lie and cheat on a daily basis are in fact criminals too, guilty of child abuse, drunk driving and other crimes. So i think its a natural match for their comfort zone to hangout with sleezeballs with criminal records who also abuse alcohol, drugs, men, women and childre and property.
    One final straw for me, was after my 4 months of silence described below she showed up at my house in northeast, and casually mentioned “some guy” who was over watching the oscars, just a friend. So she BS’d me again into some physical comfort for a day or so, then I felt the roller coaster kicking back in. She travlled back to her southwest state the next day, and within 24 hours she was telling me the guy down the block was beeping in front to give her son a ride on his motorcycle and she’d call me right back. She didnt, I called and called and called, and 6 hours later she ansswer her phone “im doing homework with my son”, she was slurrig and sniffling like she had a nose full of cocaine. I call that child abuser. Im quite sure biker boy, got her wasted on alcohol, had sex with her and had cocaine too. this is 48 hours after she was at my house begging for me to talk to her and resume our relationship after i refused to speak to her for 4 months.

    its these sort of real-world crimes that helped me lock into that “the rest of society says SHE IS WRONG and committing crimes”, therefore my suspicions are correct.

    I can’t tell you how many times my gf said to me “you gotta learn to forgive”? HA,,,,,,i gotta learn to forgive? Thats all I did was forgive by my actions of being available 24/7 in spite of the abuse. In the meantime, she’s not talking to me, which I startedn with my agreement, now she has solidified it, so who has the problem with forgiving?

    My therapist suggests the covert reason for all this, is not the obvious boundaries I imposed, but one very significant mantra i got into in January 2014, which was “I can’t talk to you unless you’re in recovery”….i held that for around 4 months until she showed up at my house. But he feels that its not about my agreement or my demand for STD tests, or demanding she cut off contact with other people when she visits me, he feels its BECAUSE I CONFRONTED the ELEPHANT in the room>>>THE ADDICTION.
    She won’t volunteer it, but he says their disease wants to thrive and ______ anybody who gets in the way of it thriving.
    So it brings back to the reality the SCIENCE of addiciton. THEIR disease trumps all. they might blame us and all this diflection, but its nothing to DO with what WE DID. Its their way of defending their right to remain active, and never ever seek help and keep the FOCUS>>>OFF THEM and their BEHAVIOR.

  • lorac

    Oh where to begin. An old friend is an alcoholic who has lied repeatedly. She was recently involved in a domestic dispute where the live in went to jail. The live in is very verbally and physically abusive. The abuse was severe enough that he did the night in jail. The excuse of course from the old friend is he was drunk..yes they are both alcoholics. I had to go to court about it. I told her to tell the truth. She proceeded to lie to the DA and when I said tell the truth she turned on me and started screaming at me. Of course people were staring at me and I was totally embarrassed. So I basically shut down and said nothing else. I left the court room in tears after she took the abuser back. He has to go to anger management and I heard his lawyer say he only had to go to 4 classes in a month and refrain from alcohol. I get home as I live a half hour away and she has unfriended me on facebook. The police who were at the domestic violence scene told her it is going to be worse the next time. This friend is isolated from her family and now her only friend. I am sure within an hour of leaving the court house they were both hitting the bottle. Is this the way alcoholics always act..they lie to get what they want even if it is harmful to them. I am at a lost for the unfriended whether he made her do it or not. Putting two alcoholics together…one with obvious anger problems is just so dangerous. The drunk abuser denies that he did anything wrong. So question if the old friend comes back and tries to be friends again should I just forget about her. I think mentally I cannot deal with the drinking and the lies and now throw some domestic violence on it. I don’t drink and never really got into it. Oh and if you ask the friend if she drinks she say no I do not..but if you show up unannounced more than likes she is halfway to drunk if not already there.

  • Pez

    Iorac, my recommendation for you is to walk and never look back. just know you can’t save her. not only was my ex an alcoholic but of course he had many friends who are addicts of different kinds. one couple just fed off each other! they would abuse each other he would burn her with cigarettes bash your head into the wall and she would burn his weenie with a curling iron. it was a roller coaster ride for each of them but they didn’t have anybody else because they were addicts. that is what happens when two addicted persons get together it’s good for a while and then it explodes. Repeat cycle over and over again.

  • lorac

    Pez, I know in my head that you are right but in my heart it is just so damn hard. This old friend has multiple health problems..heart attacks x 2 both pretty massive, uncontrolled high blood pressure, MS, depression and the list goes own. I know some of the meds she is on are very dangerous to mix with alcohol. If there is anything I have learned alcoholics seem to push the people away who actually love and care about them. Thru the years she pushed her husband away and is now divorced, time and time again she pushes her children away, she worked for over 30 yrs at the same plus but she really has no friends there and no one reaches out to her since she was forced to go on disability and retire. She says her own mother doesn’t like her and doesn’t care about her but yet she called her mother about the recent domestic violence and her mom is in her 80’s. Why tell her mom? I have begun to wonder if the reason she is staying in the abusive relationship is that in her mind he will eventually kill her and end her of suffering with MS and other health problems. If he does that her kids can still collect her life insurance and no one will blame her she will be the victim. I pointedly asked her this and she never answered the question. I have stood by her time and time again..I think just grasping for the person who use to be before alcohol took over her life. I know that person is gone forever after the last few days. I guess I just feel helpless knowing that I cannot help her. I know she needs to help herself and figure out her problem is her alcoholism. I guess by the time she figures that out if she ever does she will be long gone. You are right the cycle will repeat itself and she will be physically and mentally abused again and again. You are right with the things are good and then it just explodes that is the cycle with her for sure. The abuser I know is using her for her money too. She is retired and she lives in his home. She purchased the property next to her house and the property is in his name not hers. He recently convinced her to buy a 3 grand wood stove plus a grand of firewood. After each purchase she makes he tell her to get out but she never goes. So the abuse starts and then cools down and he gets her to buy something else…all items are expensive too..washer, dishwasher, built in microwave, lawn tractor, removal of trees and replacement of new ones. What gets me she doesn’t see that cycle either even though I have pointed it time and time again. It is like she is paying to be abused which is really really sick.

  • Pez

    Iorac, just know there’s nothing you can do for her except plant seeds. you can’t save her. she’s the one who deleted you from Facebook if you want to remain her friend let her contact you. if she does I would only talk to her if she is sober because they do not respond to anything if they are drunk anyway. keep your distance.

  • lorac

    Pez you are 100% right. Today was the first day that there was no contact with her…and it was the first day I haven’t felt completely stressed out! I have decided to cut the ties, she isn’t the person I knew, she is just a shell that person. If she wants to drink herself to death or be killed by domestic violence then so be it. Being stress free is great…I have felt so sick to my stomach with all of the mess that she created. I realize she is clueless as to what it has done to me and frankly even if she does realize it she just doesn’t care. Hard pill to swallow but it is what it is. Thanks for helping me work through this…my family basically said the same thing, my daughter said for your own sanity cut ties with her she isn’t worth the stress. I will not reach out to her at all. Even if she contacts me I don’t think I will ever respond to her..it simply isn’t worth the heartache and stress..so 30+ years of friendship gone…her loss not mine, right?

  • Pez

    Yes! It is the only way to think of it! And the truth.

  • lorac

    Pez I got a message that she didn’t unfriend me. Then she says the live in might have done it. Yikes a lot of personal messages were about him abusing her. So my choice was to deactivate my account. She might not be afraid of him but I certainly am. Land sakes how can someone let someone else control their entire life. Makes me not even want to have a glass of wine anymore.

  • Pez

    Yea, it might be smart for safety sake to distance yourself for sure! don’t worry about having a glass of wine those of us who are not alcoholics will never be One. it’s not within our genes.

  • mmmmmmmmmmm

    hi, i like what im reading here, and considering I don’t do the daily destruction to other people that active alcoholics and addicts do, i can have a glass of wine or a drink if i want to. I don’t desire it, and i know when close to these people, like i was I can be of the mindset like “what kind of example am i if i drink too”, but really its all falling to their manipulation because by that point, the topic has/had come up so now its one more thing for the alc to point the finger at “well you drink”…..Well I can if i want to, but I also find that people I’ve met like me, don’t seem to like drinking too much. If I do drink, I dont do drunk homework with children, I dont engage in promisicuous sex with strangers with children nearby, I dont drive drunk If im driving I switch to diet coke…..which reminds me of one other convo with my alc, when she was “pretending to analyze her drinking she said “I dont know what else to drink if I go out?”
    Oh really? BS, you drink OJ for breakfast, or iced tea, its all a crock and a manipulation to provide for them to be wasted and not present in life and nuture their disease. I usually switch to diet coke after one drink if im driving and most other non acloholic adults i know do the same.
    When I realize that only %10 of the population has the disease of alocholism/addiction that means there’s %90 of women I can meet who don’t have it. yes they might have other mental disorders, they can be abusive, or manipulative, or narcissitc, but I’ll take my chances and keep trying to meet nice people, but I think a big red flag is “well I HAVE TO HAVE A GLASS OF WINE” with dinner, its nonsense unless you have the disease of alcohol addiction. AND if they’re REALLY REALLY trying to work recovery and be sober, this is dealt with.
    I HAVE TO SMOKE, because im addicted to nicotine. Im not in denial, i know its bad. Am I engaging in destructive behaviors like child abuse and DWI or emotional abuse of others because of my smoking? I dont think so. Funny but when I was riding her to go to AA or NA, she would ride me back about smoking so i said “I would welcome you to take me to a tobacco anonymous meeting, absolutely”. ……I was serious, of course she didnt,,,WHY?? BECAUSE THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT US.
    IF someone I cared about was trying to quit smoking, or drinking or drugs, I would gladly accompany them, like I did with her.

    They DO NOT CARE ABOUT US. ALL WORDS ARE MANIPULATIONS..GOOD MORNING is a manipulation as far as im concerned “why are you…….______” is a manipulation,…”BUT YOU _________________” is a manipulation”…….”I had an idea, how about if we/you _________” is a manipulation…
    Any inquiry into how i am doing? Is a manipulation, for she the active alcoholic to know if they can abuse me more, or if Im useless because maybe im having a bad day. if im having a bad day, how can I service her? They are all about them!
    How’s your job?= manipulation, without money we are no good for them. HOw’s your car? =manipulation.

    Im dead serious in hindsight I can now see, that when her lips were moving she was indeed lying and manipulating. IN SPITE OF ALL THAT. I dont hate her, And i think she’s very pretty. Go figure!

  • Pez

    I didn’t drink hardly at all the five years I was with my X alcoholic boyfriend because I didn’t want to cause him to stumble as the Bible would say. But seriously, it didn’t make a damn bit of difference. Free to have a glass of wine or two every now and then yay. his ex wife told me when she would have a glass of wine or something and he would b**** about it she would tell him ” I don’t have a problem with alcohol you do”. and that’s the truth! they will use any excuse to keep using but if you don’t have a problem with alcohol have a glass of wine or a beer! it will make no difference to them either way.

  • mmmmmmm

    Good Points Pez, I came back here because Im getting emails from another thread on this site, its all good and very honest and un-censored which is what I like about this site.
    Yes their denial, covers all the bases for them, its not only denial about problem drinking for me bigger problem is denial of any wrongdoing…..

  • Pez

    Yes that is the most hideous part of it! The denial goes so deep they care about nothing or no one to the point of sociopathy and narcissism. Extremely hurtful human beings. I find their actions detestable. and like I said the question I had to ask myself was: if this person was not an alcoholic would I even be friends with Them? the answer would be absolutely out early no! we use alcohol as an excuse to stay with them because they have a problem or a disease. but there is no excuse for treating people badly and harmfully in my opinion no excuse at all. and as a reminder that’s what they want for you to feel pity for them for their disease and not hold them accountable. drunks do not like accountability!

  • mmmmmmm

    hi Pez,
    I would add for me, “if this person was not an attractive woman would i be friends with her”. I just went thru some nonsense with an auto-mechanic. His stories and actions weren’t matching his words. He had been doing work at my house. I felt pretty sure he was not alcoholic or addict, but maybe a bit of a big ego, mechanic. Bottom line, once i felt deceived and the commmunication went sour, I resolved ways to cut ties with him, simulaneously I discharged by Text to him that I felt he was full of nonsense. because it was not a romantic based relationship i was able to set boundaries, and not cave, not break my boundaries. It succeeded because he was not an alcoholic, he was able to admit his mistake and do the right thing and finish the repair job he started.
    I think its a totally different animal when physical attraction romance and sex are involved.

  • Well,

    I’m back! I finally left my husband and got a new place for me and my little girl… Now I’m struggling with missing him after hearing his I miss you messages. I haven’t told about my new place, should I? I also filed for child support in which I’m having mixed feelings about… Why? I don’t know. I’m actually a little nervous that when he finds out that I applied for child support he is not going to want to work on our marriage anymore. Why do I even care? Why am I so mixed up

  • I’m really struggling…
    I miss my huband but he is not contacting me as much as I think he should. Could it be that all the horrible things that have happened was his way of getting me to leave? I’ve received a couple of I miss you messages but they are days apart. I filed for child support last monday, could it be that he has been notified and now he wants nothing to do with me? I’m starting to feel lonely and really missing my husband. Please help

  • I’ve spent months talking about wanting to leave. Now that I’ve left I miss home and my husband.

  • What phase is this?? I’ve spent over a year in active addiction now I’m away from it and I’m feeling like I’m a little lost. Lord forgive me.

  • Pez

    Join the club Patricia, I have had a couple horrible days of crying and feeling abandoned well not feeling abandoned I was abandoned. I don’t have many people in this world. I have my aunt and uncle a few friends but not very close ones. I can’t find a decent man on internet dating and I’m not willing to settle. It’s been nine and a half months since he relapsed & went to the other woman and I cut him off and I still feel the pain. He always used that “I miss you” shit with me too. it’s only way to get you back in the game. if he was willing to leave me for a low life s*** and I never meant anything to him. 6 years of my life wasted loving a man I so deeply regret loving. having a rough time today! another fYI Patricia, he never really came back for me or chased me. I’m always the one who had to contact him and make it up and try to fix it. this last time I refuse! I will not contact him I will suffer until I’m healed but it’s hell at times. won’t be an easy road girl. all I can say is be strong that’s our only choice. if he doesn’t make an honest effort to get sober all you can do is stay strong and move on and hope time will heal your wounds. that’s what I’m hoping for.

  • Hey Pez!

    Thank you for the insight. It helps to hear from someone going through the same pain. I’m sorry for your heartache as well. I’m going to have a talk with God tonight. I know these feelings will pass but like you said, its not easy and I hate feeling this way. Hope you have a better day tomorrow.

  • K

    Patricia, I find if I talk to God all day long, it keeps my mind from focusing on the AH. Finding other interests, playing
    my accordion, gardening, learning on the internet. (Did you
    know there are many cities lost under the sea.] Even lost cities are found. Redirect your mind, do not let the alcoholic
    rent space in your mind. He does not belong there and if you
    find yourself focusing on the alcoholic he becomes the one
    in control of you. Empower yourself. Give yourself a chance
    to live your life with out his addictive actions controlling
    you. It is never easy to change. You will backslide, take
    that information from the backslide and learn ways of controlling
    that hurt into a more positive and productive
    life. Yes, we feel like we have lost our way. You are found.
    Right here at this web sight with Others who have lost
    their way. We are like a big city under the sea and are newly
    discovered. We are established. We are still in existence.
    We become polished and preserved so those who have lost their way
    can look to God and say thank you for one hard lesson learned over
    and over. Okay, I will get off my soap box and get my day moving.
    God knows us more than we know ourselves. I am sure I have
    given God a headache or two and perhaps a chuckle here and there,

  • Pez

    I am determined to have a better day today and be productive. Even though yesterday was horrible. I back slid as K said. Sometimes I swear they have this demonic hold on you. or mind control through all of the ups and downs makes you A bit crazy and unstable at times. I really have never felt this way in my life until I met him. but I will have victory! I am determined to live and thrive the rest of my life without that crazy making crap! may God help us all amen.

  • Pez and K
    Thank you for your wisdom. I’m struggling but I know God will get the glory. I have prayed to have new things to think about and to no longerfocus on the silence from my husband. I am definitely going through a process. Crying, lonliness, confusion, heartache, and detached. But, I know it

  • Pez

    Patricia, I honestly think they don’t contact you number one because they know you’re right and they don’t deserve you! Number 2. To hurt you like they are hurting. My aunt said he went to the other woman because that is what he feels he deserves. Maybe this is the truth. Just food for thought.

  • Pez
    That makes a lot of sense. He would probably turn it around on me and say I’m the one being distant? Well, I’m still healing and will be glad when I get to your level.

  • SC

    Patricia, it’s part of grief, like K said try to keep your mind busy. I too do not have a lot of people in my world, my mother died and I have 2 close friends. I’ve known one for 30 years and the other 40. It’s hard being alone. My xah (very high functioning, you could not see that he was drunk plus he was very educated and smart…the worse kind of a…a smart one)left me and it’s been over 3 years and I still think about all the mean things he said. It has caused me to feel not good enough (which I did not have bah). I am struggling to be ok today. I hate all this.
    At least I’m not alone. LOL

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